But notably not that one. And their claims specifically contradict yours.
> It's also a claim I've made based on personal experience with both "mineral salt crystals" (alum - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alum) and regular deodorant, and knowing the ingredients in both and how those ingredients affect bacteria.
You can make whatever claims you want. That doesn't make them valid. Lots of people have "personal experiences" with homeopathic medicine and are convinced of its efficacy. That doesn't mean they're correct.
I also question how much you actually know about how the ingredients in various deodorants affect bacteria.
> One killed off all odor causing bacteria after a few weeks (I no longer have to use it, maybe once a week).
No, it didn't. Are you really under the belief that those "odor causing bacteria" existed only on your armpits? That they don't exist on the skin around your armpits, or you know, all over your body? That they couldn't and wouldn't simply spread back to your armpits if you managed to kill them off there?
I also hate to break the news to you, but there's a pretty good chance that you're smelly and just don't know it, because over the course of "a few weeks", you trained yourself not to notice it.
> No, they just don't put the same amount of alum in their products to make it effective.
Many of them don't use alum at all, because other ingredients are known to work better, especially for people who also want antiperspirant effects.
> Their game is to mask the odor
Masking the odor would mean covering up. Alum, aluminium chlorohydrate, and aluminum zirconium tetrachlorohydrex gly don't have any significant smell of their own. Indeed, you can buy unscented deodorants from the major manufacturers, and they are exactly as effective as the scented ones.
You seem to be replacing my own experience, and that of the people that alum rocks have worked for, with your own lack of it.?
> with homeopathic medicine and are convinced of its efficacy. That doesn't mean they're correct.
I don't see how that's even remotely a valid comparison. There is nothing homeopathic about alum crystals.
> That they couldn't and wouldn't simply spread back to your armpits if you managed to kill them off there?
Then why didn't they spread and colonize the next day, as you have claimed they would? Ohh, you've already explained that away.
My skin is not my armpits. The other areas don't have the same temperature, humidity, and sweat. Those areas don't have and breed bacteria like armpits do. And it takes time for the bacteria to spread, multiply, and get below the surface. Once you've eliminated an area, it's going to be a while, regardless of the small amounts of bacteria on other areas.
> Indeed, you can buy unscented deodorants from the major manufacturers, and they are exactly as effective as the scented ones.
I have no idea what you're trying to convince me of. That I'm a crazy homeopathic guy with no sense of smell, covered in massive colonies of armpit-smelling highly-mobile bacteria that spreads like a fire? You might as well claim I'm a paid shill for the product.
> You seem to be replacing my own experience, and that of the people that alum rocks have worked for, with your own lack of it.?
No, I'm saying that your claims are so outlandish that even the manufacturers of alum rocks don't support them.
> I don't see how that's even remotely a valid comparison. There is nothing homeopathic about alum crystals.
Maybe it'd be clearer if I used the word placebo.
> Then why didn't they spread and colonize the next day, as you have claimed they would? Ohh, you've already explained that away.
They do, which is why a good scrubbing with antibacterial soap doesn't make them disappear forever.
> My skin is not my armpits. The other areas don't have the same temperature, humidity, and sweat. Those areas don't have and breed bacteria like armpits do. And it takes time for the bacteria to spread, multiply, and get below the surface. Once you've eliminated an area, it's going to be a while, regardless of the small amounts of bacteria on other areas.
You drastically underestimate how much bacteria is on the rest of your body, and how quickly those bacteria spread and multiply.
Potassium alum is an astringent/styptic and antiseptic. For this reason, it can be used as a natural deodorant by inhibiting the growth of the bacteria responsible for body odor.
How Does Crystal Body Deodorant Work? Odor is caused by bacteria that form on the body. Natural mineral salts form a barrier on the skin that creates a very unfriendly environment for these bacteria.
> You drastically underestimate...
All I have to say is try it for yourself.
Unless you think you're an expert on under-arm bacteria and odor... Which is odd concidering you work for Microsoft.
The placebo effect I refer to is not the short-term deodorizing behavior. It's the antiperspirant effect and especially the long-term effects that you're claiming. These are not supported by the company manufacturing the product, and I'm not aware of any evidence for these effects aside from your claims. If you have some evidence that doesn't involve blindly trusting you, then by all means share it.
Mate, you're off base here. I use one of these crystals, and they work for me. I had tried everything, and I used to smell bad by the end of the day, on multi day camping trips I would be brutal.
A friend of mine was raving about the crystal ("smell my armpits, they are odorless", etc etc) so I tried it....after a few days, voila, odors gone. I'll start smelling some by noon the next day if I don't shower, but otherwise I'm good.
Placebo you say...well, it's a damn good one, because it has fooled not only me, but my close friends who always used to playfully razz me.
However, it seems not to work for everyone, or at least, some people I know who've tried it say it didn't work for them.
I'm not saying that the crystal is ineffective as a deodorant. I'm saying that it does not have the properties that powertower is claiming. Namely, short-term ("a few weeks") use does not have long-term ("a lifetime") antibacterial and antiperspirant effects.
If you use it in the morning and it makes you smell better for the rest of the day, then yes, that's the expected effect (and I'm happy that it works for you). If you use it for a couple of weeks and then think you're smell- and sweat-free for years, then you're delusional.
> Namely, short-term ("a few weeks") use does not have long-term ("a lifetime") antibacterial and antiperspirant effects.
There are a couple of sentences that I didn't do a very good job with delivering here, but you're reading into it too much.
I don't claim that 1) it has any type of significant antiperspirant effect (just that it did seem to help a little via perhaps a secondary effect) and 2) it has long term effects after you completely stop using it (just that now I don't need to use it as consistently as before).
Maybe I was a bit overzealous delivering some of that in a few posts here.
My only real claim is that it works for me, and others, better than the regular stuff.
> I don't claim that ... 2) it has long term effects after you completely stop using it (just that now I don't need to use it as consistently as before).
Well, no.
You said..
> After a week or two of this, you're done. Your sweat lessens, and becomes clear and odorless.
> No more deodorant is required after this. Just shower and apply some soap to your skin.
You're quite clear in claiming that after a few weeks of the salt rock, you don't need to use it, or any other.
That said, I use this stuff too because my armpit skin is sensitive to certain deodorants and gets red and itchy if I use them. So I switch to the crystal brand for a few weeks, and it works, but it definitely does not confer any more effect than any other deodorant. I have to apply it daily, like any other.
If you read the posts right after it, you'll notice I've clarified it a few times. Not that the original statement is false for me.
Personally, I don't need to use the alum-salts anymore. Once the bacteria is "gone" (okay... reduced to the lower, natural levels), it's just a matter of using soap and nothing else for me. It's a sign of good health, but your results may vary.
The notion that bacteria #s comes back (in a few days) to the same over-realized levels that you've grown over the previous 20+ years is ridiculous. You have natural balanced levels and types, that get augmented over time via lack of proper management.
Once you kill off the extras, those #s get back to lower natural levels which are manageable by other means (soap during shower). As long as you manage those #s, they stay leveled.
Maybe we're just different. Maybe we're in different environments. Etc.
> Then why didn't they spread and colonize the next day, as you have claimed they would?
They do. Armpits are smelly because the sweat glands there excrete bacterial nutrients designed to feed smelly bacteria. Aluminum compounds plug the outlet of the sweat glands, choking off the supply of nutrients. The plugs last for days.
> Once you've eliminated an area, it's going to be a while, regardless of the small amounts of bacteria on other areas.
The other areas have 1 million bacteria per square centimeter that are easily spread, and a population doubling time of around 20 minutes in a favorable area like a damp armpit. Run the numbers on geometric growth at that rate. Even if you reduce bacterial density by 99.99%, they will be back in a few hours.
But notably not that one. And their claims specifically contradict yours.
> It's also a claim I've made based on personal experience with both "mineral salt crystals" (alum - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alum) and regular deodorant, and knowing the ingredients in both and how those ingredients affect bacteria.
You can make whatever claims you want. That doesn't make them valid. Lots of people have "personal experiences" with homeopathic medicine and are convinced of its efficacy. That doesn't mean they're correct.
I also question how much you actually know about how the ingredients in various deodorants affect bacteria.
> One killed off all odor causing bacteria after a few weeks (I no longer have to use it, maybe once a week).
No, it didn't. Are you really under the belief that those "odor causing bacteria" existed only on your armpits? That they don't exist on the skin around your armpits, or you know, all over your body? That they couldn't and wouldn't simply spread back to your armpits if you managed to kill them off there?
I also hate to break the news to you, but there's a pretty good chance that you're smelly and just don't know it, because over the course of "a few weeks", you trained yourself not to notice it.
> No, they just don't put the same amount of alum in their products to make it effective.
Many of them don't use alum at all, because other ingredients are known to work better, especially for people who also want antiperspirant effects.
> Their game is to mask the odor
Masking the odor would mean covering up. Alum, aluminium chlorohydrate, and aluminum zirconium tetrachlorohydrex gly don't have any significant smell of their own. Indeed, you can buy unscented deodorants from the major manufacturers, and they are exactly as effective as the scented ones.