The problem with these projects is that they are all the hype for a while and after the hype dies down you are left with laptop that is only in theory upgradable.
Why not instead someone just market a replacement keyboard for one of the more popular laptops? It sounds as though modern keyboards are the primary pain point for newer laptops.
(Or if a 3rd party had marketed an inexpensive replacement power-brick for the author's 2001 Apple iBook perhaps he would still be using it.)
I love frame.work as a concept, but it's definitely not a "proven" concept at the moment. The company could very well go under or choose not to support upgrading the laptop.
Even assuming Framework shuts down tomorrow and destroys their existing stock of replacement parts and the specs for making new ones, I would argue that you can at the very least assume permanent availability of RAM, SSD, Display (it uses a commodity panel), fan, and battery (there are knockoff batteries for much more obscure laptops).
I would assume that keyboards, trackpads, etc. will also be available as some laptops bite the dust and are scavenged for parts.
Whether the motherboard/CPU will actually be upgradeable obviously remains to be seen. The 11th Gen CPUs get a lot of flak, but they have good single-core performance which will make them suitable for general use for a long time.
It's at least equally upgradeable as the first ThinkPads with soldered on CPUs, which by today's standards is still pretty good - and if framework deliver on their promises, then it will be even better. But either way the baseline isn't bad.
> I would argue that you can at the very least assume permanent availability of RAM, SSD, Display (it uses a commodity panel), fan, and battery
I mean, you can buy a new-ish Thinkpad where you can replace/upgrade all of those things. You get great compatibility and most hw/sw compatibility bugs are already known and have workarounds. Framework has to have some other value propositions as well besides being able to replace things you mentioned.
As I said, that's the absolute worst-case scenario.
I don't own one personally, but reviews have been overwhelmingly positive so presumably it does have something to offer beyond replaceability. (disclaimer: some people on HN seem to have had some driver issues on Linux on theirs)
That's the thing, their USP is long-term maintainability and upgradeability, but if they call it quits in a year, you're stuck with a niche product that nobody else is willing to make parts for.
To be fair, once you hit 5 years (or if you’re unlucky 3 years) it becomes just about impossible to get OEM parts from Dell or Lenovo and you have to resort to cannibalizing broken ones off eBay or your parts bin if you’re in enterprise. So either way you could end up in the same boat, except if framework comes up with a gen 2 it’s possible with enough consumer pressure they’ll make the parts cross compatible.
> you have to resort to cannibalizing broken ones off eBay or your parts bin if you’re in enterprise
Except these graveyards are ENDLESS because of the amount they produced and companies threw away. My favorite is all the originally $150 docking stations that you can pick up for under $20 (or at least when I was in the lenovo t series game).
Fresh (or at least gently used) batteries are the reason I had to stop using my X220 though, as I bought like three different batteries (one OEM that was old stock, and two third-party) and none could keep it up for more than an hour. That's tough without OEM support.
What conclusion, I'm not asserting they are going to fail. Startup failure rates are close to 90%, being concerned that this startup might also fail isn't unreasonable.
The Framework seems to be a modern Thinkpad with a similar USP of how they were built in 2012 before manufacturers tried to introduce and convince consumers of disposable laptops for the past 10 years.
The reason I suggested handling one is the build quality for a first gen device is hard to believe until you hold one and use it for a few days or weeks. The framework is well beyond the quality of first gen devices and feels like the smart people at Apple, Lenovo, etc got together to build a laptop and delivered.
Let’s look at it from where you’re presenting it:
Customers exist in multiple segments: Pioneers, Early Adopters, Early Conservatives, Late Conservatives and Laggards.. distributed on a bell curve.
It’s true startups largely fail because most fail to find a product people want, or deliver on finding a market and distribution for it. They seem to have resonated.
Successful startups often need to appeal to a large enough Pioneer and Early Adopter market to sustain crossing that little chasm to sustainability. Seems like a premium priced product is selling out in batches and getting decent reviews.
Laptops are not a small market. Likely enough pioneers and early adopters exist, unlike the conservatives and laggards that delay adopting technology until validated by others. Someone can run Windows or Linux.
Maybe you’re not an early adopter or pioneer.. but many entrepreneurs and creators could be. Innovators usually exist in a mindset of possibility leveraged with unfair advantages and Framework seems to have a few.
While I don’t work for Framework, I’ve sadly owned 10-15 laptops. With each new laptop I also buy the death of that device. The framework has as many if not more replaceable components from third parties.
On being reasonable, I think it’s fair to say that not everything is for everyone. You or I are not everyone or everyone’s needs.
All it has to do is last 2-3 years without much ado, which it probably will, while being produced in small batches that are hopefully profitable.
I bought and returned my framework and outlined why in another comment, mostly I learned I didn’t have the time to tinker, but I don’t think there’s an option like it on the market.
My guess? Framework will be around, and might even build up like Razer, System76, etc and be acquired by a large manufacturer.
Edit: Forgot to add the initial link between a 2012 Thinkpad and Framework.
> “The reason I suggested handling one is the build quality for a first gen device is hard to believe until you hold one and use it for a few days or weeks.”
“one of the worst purchases I've ever made. [...] This last point is pretty minor, but the hinges are floppy. The whole screen shakes around when I type on it.“
“Build quality. I'm convinced if I drop this thing it's all over.
All in all I'm mad at myself for spending over $3k on a productivity configuration centered around what is pretty much beta hardware. I should have known better.”
“Re build quality: yes, it is a bit flimsier than I would like (though have definitely used laptops that are way worse)”
> “All it has to do is last 2-3 years without much ado, which it probably will”
If that’s all you need why wouldn’t you buy a non-upgradeable one? It’ll be thinner, lighter and less fuss. The framework seems to be targeted at people who want a decade of use with upgrades.
I really hope you are correct! I would love to see a less consumer hostile (and more environmentally friendly) business model succeed and start to gain traction.
I love the idea of framework! But I also live in France and I can't get myself to do another preorder adventure right now.
When they start actually shipping I might go for that, although frankly I still might wait for a Ryzen model.
