These are interesting articles, but in https://www.renehersecycles.com/myth-12-disc-brakes-work-bet..., it just says outright "Many rim brakes for wide tires are too weak to do this quickly, so in the rain, you end up with almost no braking power at all." It's not a myth, it's just conditionally true.

You should also keep in mind that the articles are slightly dated, so technical improvements may have changed the equation. For example in the comments thread for the disc brake article, people mention that they cannot find disc rotors with sufficient size for tandems. With the rise of cargo and electric bikes, disc brakes with pretty massive stopping power have come to market. Mine can safely stop the bike, me, plus 100kg of extra load for a total of about 250kg [1], the R+M Load Cargo has an S-Pedelec version with a powered top speed of 45km/h. Those brakes will work for any tandem as well.

[1] yes, I tried.

On tandems the problem hasn't been stopping power for years (every since we had hydraulic brakes this has been a solved problem). The bigger issue on a tandem is that when you're going downhill you will end up overheating your brake, whatever kind of system you are using. There is just too much kinetic energy to get rid of as heat for your normal brake system to be able to deal with.

The kinetic energy depends on weight and speed. Cargo bikes easily come into that range, especially the fast 45km/h electric ones. Energy dissipation depends on the size of the rotor and sizes have been increasing substantially. When I bought mine, the standard disk size was 160mm, I opted for the upgrade to 180mm. The current generation of Riese-Müller Load uses dedicated cargo bike brakes with thicker rotors (2.3mm instead of 1.8) and a 223mm diameter on the rear wheel, 160mm on the front. Those brakes have substantially more staying power before they fade.

Edit: Generally, developments for cargo bikes seem to help tandems and tandem developments benefit cargo bikes. There's now an option to use the tandem version of the Rohloff internal geared hub for RM cargo bikes. That's a serious upgrade to all previous internal hubs, especially since you can combine it with a belt drive. It's a tiny bit expensive, though...

Yes, that Rohloff stuff is nice, and indeed a tiny bit expensive.

With proper technique disc brakes wont overheat, especially now heatsinked pads and 203mm rotors are available.

People who overheat brakes typically lack confidence and drag them constantly on descents causing overheating.

I take it you've never been on a tandem going downhill for a long stretch?

That's not a matter of confidence, that's purely a matter of safety.

I've been on a touring bike with a total weight of 130kg down massive hills in Japan

They why would you comment on what it's like to go downhill on a tandem?

I've got a Koga TwintySix, a trekking tandem, fully loaded it gets up to 180-200 Kg (two adults+camping gear, the 200 Kg is the maximum allowed load), the brakes are super good and yet, by the time you reach 70 kph downhill they are no longer capable of stopping the bike, safely or even at all.

A drag brake is a must in a situation like that or your brakes will start fading within minutes during speed reduction (short bursts of braking to reduce your speed to something safe and allow for ample cooling), and long before you really need them.

My comment was around experience of a reasonably heavy bike and braking down steep hills.

Like I said, its about technique, if you are getting up to 70kmh with bad brakes then you have bad technique.

The braking energy dissipated goes up square vs speed, so in that case you brake earlier and keep the speed down.

With that said, I have no doubt a large rotor with out heat soak can easily stop a 200kg bike from 70kmh to zero.

> It's not a myth, it's just conditionally true.

Sounds to me like it’s generally true, and conditionally not: in good condition with thin tires on a metal wheel good rim brakes can be better than disc.

Je general case is thus that you’re better off with disc as default.

We have a pretty wide collection of bikes, and all of them are in tiptop shape. None of the bikes with rim brakes have the same kind of stopping power as the disc versions. They don't even come close. Maybe there is an ideal bike somewhere that can outperform any of the disk brake systems that we have but if it exists I haven't seen it. Ever. Of course this is still 'anecdata' but I've seen a lot of bikes.

The people that still seem to push for rimbrakes here in Europe are typically semi-pro or pro cyclists, who may or may not have valid concerns regarding injury due to the disc edges being too sharp (they are now usually chamfered to allay this).

> None of the bikes with rim brakes have the same kind of stopping power as the disc versions.

Yes I expect the people who say that rim brakes are better don’t mean "have better stopping powder" as that seems unlikely, but rather "have sufficient stopping power while being lighter / more flexible / …".

The difference is the modulation, especially with hydro discs.

Rim brakes are like drum brakes on cars, they are more binary with not enough braking power that then snap transitions to locking up.

hydro disc brakes let you brake hard and avoid lockups.

I haven't had issues with any of my disc brakes overheating, but that sounds like one reason to prefer rim brakes, rim brakes cool better. That's not an issue for a lot of situations, though.

This article doesn't have measurements, or references to measurements. It's just someone's opinions. Cycling already has plenty of those, thanks.

> Disc brakes work better than rim brakes

They really do though. Hydraulic disk breaks have way more stopping power, higher resistance to wet and dirt, don't weaken with each use, and are both lower maintenance in the long and short term, and easier to service and get correct.

It's not out of ignorance the bike uses who need brakes the most 100% use disks (mountain biking).

The argument made is that "rim breaks are disk brakes". This is true in the same sense that topologically humans are donut shaped. It ignores all subtilty. Wheels flex in turns where your disks do not, etc etc forever.

I think the myth is "all disc brakes are always better than all rim brakes". There are definitely reasons it y situations to prefer disc brakes, especially hydraulic, but also reasons to prefer rim brakes.

> but also reasons to prefer rim brakes

Like? I honestly can't think of any. They don't save enough on weight to be worth the hassle for all but the tour de france. They don't improve areo.

Why?

And calipers on disc brakes have a lot more grip on the disc than the rubber brake shoes on rim brakes, which - especially when wet - can be quite useless.

> * Higher tire pressure is faster

For semi-professionals sure this is a myth for normal road surfaces, but for every day use by normal people with no knowledge whatsoever putting just over 2 bar in their wheels since that is what their cars use you definitely win efficiency, al lot.

If I used 32psi in my bicycle tyres I'd be getting pinch flats all the time! I run 35x700c marathon plus', which requires a minimum of 65psi [4 bar] (https://www.schwalbe.com/en/tour-reader/marathon-plus)

Maybe for mountain bike tyres that advice works well.

I use 30psi on my 35mm and 44mm tires on paved and unpaved surfaces all the time. Have you tried, with a good supple tire? Mine have a max of 65psi!